Ardra Shephard: I'm Ardra Shephard and this is Tripping on Air. A place to talk shit about what it's like to have MS. Normally I like to make everything about me, but MS also affects the people we love. So weighing in from the partner perspective is Alex Hajjar, my friend whose wife also has MS. Join us monthly as we dish about everything from symptoms to stigma. If you have MS or you love someone who does, we want to connect with you.   Ardra Shephard: I love travel. I have prioritized travel my whole life. There's definitely a difference between traveling and vacationing, but even on a drop and flop, there's no break from my worst problem, which is MS. It doesn't matter where you're going, MS is coming with you and it's going to be cranky, it's going to complain a lot. But there are things you can do to continue traveling if you have any chronic illness or disability. And today we're going to talk about what some of those tips and tricks are because Alex, I know you love travel as much as I do. You and your wife Nicole are avid travelers. And yeah, I think it's great. I want to hear your tips too. Nicole in fact was diagnosed while you were traveling. And I love that given what had to have been a super traumatic experience, it didn't stop you guys from wanting to see the world.   Alex Hajjar: Nope, not at all. We were traveling cross continentally across Europe and we were on a farm in France and we had an episode and we went to a French university hospital in Angers. I'll shout them out because they were fantastic. And yeah, we were stuck there for 10 days, but at the end they pumped Nicole full of caffeine and steroids despite our families pleading with us to come home, which is a whole other thing, we just drove in the opposite direction. So that's how much we love travel.   Ardra Shephard: Well, I feel like the hospital food in France is better than the hospital food here.   Alex Hajjar: Completely elite level hospital food.   Ardra Shephard: Nice. One of the things that we consider when traveling first is definitely the location. Obviously that's what anyone considers, but you've got to think about climate when you have MS. So many of us are bothered by heat sensitivity. I am particularly bothered by cold. I think it's definitely a matter of considering the time of year, but you also really want to think about things like air conditioning, which are not ... We maybe take it for granted in North America that air conditioning is available everywhere, but it's really not.   Alex Hajjar: It isn't. And also seasons. Like we were just in Vietnam and there's two seasons in the south of Vietnam, wet and dry, and then there's four seasons up north. And they're slightly milder than here, but they're still variable. And the south is extremely hot always. And we did have an episode where the power went out and the AC didn't work for several hours and we literally just changed hotels because it's not a livable way to go about being in a place for several days when temperature regulation is an issue.   Ardra Shephard: Okay. But speaking of location choices, Vietnam is a hell of a drive from Toronto.   Alex Hajjar: It's a bit of a jaunt. And so I think the other thing is the jet lag. I'm still in the middle of it. It's an hour per day I think is the golden rule for getting used to the timing. So that means the first few days, even several days can be an absolute nightmare. So definitely something to consider.   Ardra Shephard: So how long was your travel day first of all?   Alex Hajjar: We were there for 22 ... Oh, the travel day? You're in transit-   Ardra Shephard: No. How long did it take you from the time you left your apartment to the time you arrived at your hotel?   Alex Hajjar: Over 24 hours in transit.   Ardra Shephard: I would not do that. Here's an example of what not to do if you have chronic ... Vietnam sounds amazing and beautiful, but that's definitely going to come at a cost and I think you don't want to go for just a week. If you have to take that much time to acclimate and to get over jet lag, you definitely want to budget in a good amount of time to recover from that.   Alex Hajjar: We were there for 22 days, so it was enough time to acclimate and then enjoy the whole time. But yeah, Vietnam, it can be a big challenge for chronic illness. There's no doubt about that.   Ardra Shephard: Alex, what's the most accessible place you've been and what's the least accessible, let's say?   Alex Hajjar: The least accessible I will say is probably Vietnam or Morocco. Marrakesh is similar in that it has very tight markets and bazaars and it's very tough to get through. There's cats everywhere, people everywhere, things everywhere. And in Vietnam, a lot of the walking streets have tables and chairs and stools that are just in the way as well as motorbikes. They're parked on the sidewalks. And the infrastructure is not what we're used to here in Toronto at least, or in North America as a whole. I would say probably the best place, best in quotes that is, for easiest to ambulate I guess is probably somewhere in Europe. I think it's just easier to get around and the infrastructure is getting better each time.   Ardra Shephard: Yeah. And I would say not all of Europe. Specific places.   Alex Hajjar: Sure.   Ardra Shephard: But there are lots of things that we can navigate to hacks.   Alex Hajjar: Yeah. I'll say Rotterdam is one of my favorite European cities and I think that aside from whatever lingering cobblestone roads are there, they're probably one of the flattest and most easiest way to get around if you're on wheels or otherwise.   Ardra Shephard: My vote goes to Barcelona as the most accessible city I've been. Yeah. It's beautiful. It's unbelievable. Actually a lot of Spain, it's incredible to me what they've done with accessibility. When I consider how much older Spain is than Toronto, it really puts us to shame as to what we haven't done. Yeah, Barcelona was very easy to navigate and just beautiful also. So you want to think of the time of year, the weather. I like to travel off season because with fewer crowds that also helps a lot. Jet lag of course is a factor, so think about how far you're going. And again, outside of North America, air conditioning isn't always even that reliable. So I think you want to make sure that it exists, but also that it's good. So read reviews. If you really are prone to heat sensitivity, you want to go on those travel websites and read reviews and look for those red flags because I don't know about Nicole, but that can ruin a trip really.   Alex Hajjar: Definitely put it in your search criteria when you're on different travel websites is things like accessibility, if they have it, but mostly elevators if you need them. And AC is a big one if you're going somewhere warm. I know in England when we lived there, we didn't have an air conditioner in our house. We didn't necessarily need it, but I think there are going to be more severe weather events going forward so there might be episodes where you do find you need it and if it doesn't exist, that's going to be trouble.   Ardra Shephard: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we've got locations covered, air conditioning. I always recommend getting travel insurance. Cancellation insurance is great because sometimes you don't know what's going to happen. I think I've had to cancel two or three trips at the very last minute and that cancellation insurance has come in really handy. Check your credit card or get a travel credit card that has that insurance in it because you also want to make sure that you are covered for any emergencies that you had. When Nicole was diagnosed in France, that can be a real thing too.   Alex Hajjar: Obviously we had no idea that that was going to happen, but we did take insurance out because it was a three month trip we were planning, so we were like, we might as well get it. It was the first time we ever did it and it absolutely came in handy. We got to the end of the period and we got ushered into an office where they presented us with a bill of many euros and we essentially handed them over the paperwork and they told us that we were good to go and we just left.   Ardra Shephard: You totally got your money's worth on that one.   Alex Hajjar: It was absolutely money's worth it. No questions. And this time we took out insurance. We did use our credit card for a lot of it and we had to pay a little bit of a premium because of the time we were there. So that's another thing is maybe if you're going for an extended period of time, you might have to extend the insurance period on your credit card if they do cover you. So something else.   Ardra Shephard: When I was younger, I didn't believe in insurance. I thought I was like legalized extortion. Don't take my advice on that. When I was really young. Of course, you don't want to spend money on anything. And I was going to France to study and my mom told me, "You better get medical insurance." And of course I had been there for one month and I had an ice skating accident where somebody skated over my finger.   Alex Hajjar: What?   Ardra Shephard: Yeah. It was awful.   Alex Hajjar: Oh my goodness.   Ardra Shephard: I know. It was gross. I'm fine now. All my fingers are here.   Alex Hajjar: Yeah. You'd never be able to tell. All your fingers are there.   Ardra Shephard: You'd never be able to tell. But that's because I had insurance. And that was a French hospital. They put me back together again.   Alex Hajjar: Oh man. See that's the thing. French hospitals. If you're going to get injured, go to France. That's the lesson.   Ardra Shephard: Yeah. Even Air ... I love Air ... We sound really bougie but-   Alex Hajjar: Hashtag not sponsored.   Ardra Shephard: I know, right? But Air France, call me. I got to fly business class one time in my life on somebody else's dime and it was Air France and they ... We're going to talk about mobility aids in a bit, but in business class on Air France, they let me bring my rollator into the cabin. They hey have a closet where you can hang your coats and they had room for my rollator. It was really awesome.   Alex Hajjar: That is extra though. That is extra.   Ardra Shephard: Oh my god.   Alex Hajjar: Don't expect that if you're taking economy like we did this time.   Ardra Shephard: No. I feel like even business class on Air Canada, I feel like they wouldn't let you do that, but Air France, they did so.   Alex Hajjar: Fair enough.   Ardra Shephard: Yeah. It's funny because the question that I get asked the most is about traveling with mobility aids and of course I've done a lot of traveling, but when my MS was in the invisible stage years before I needed mobility aids, there were so many things to consider with traveling and how MS would impact that. I think for many of us, there's a lot of psychological hangups that we have about asking for wheelchair assistance at the airport, particularly when we're ambulatory and we don't need mobility aids. And I would say try to get over that because airports are exhausting and that wheelchair assistance can save you so much energy. It's really worth it.   Alex Hajjar: It's a game changer.   Ardra Shephard: It is.   Alex Hajjar: We've used it for the last handful of trips we've taken and I have to say ... The thing is each airline also has different processes and procedures, so maybe call ahead. We did a few domestic trips and we used VietJet Air this time and this and that. Sometimes they're not really prepared for you. Even when we got to Pearson this time, we have to wait in line first and then check in and then they give us the wheelchair. There's no-   Ardra Shephard: Pearson is a shit show.   Alex Hajjar: Fair enough.   Ardra Shephard: And you always when you're booking your flight, ask for wheelchair assistance. Don't wait to ask for it when you get there.   Alex Hajjar: No. They knew we were getting it and we still got-   Ardra Shephard: I know. That's what I'm saying. It's still a garbage fire, but ask for it ahead of time anyway. If you forget, you can still request it when you get there, but sometimes you have to advocate for yourself.   Alex Hajjar: True.   Ardra Shephard: Things are not going to run smoothly, but it is your right so take advantage of it.   Alex Hajjar: I do have to say ... And again, not sponsored here, but Vietnamese airlines, we took from Hoi An to Hanoi I believe. And it was like they were waiting for Nicole to walk in. They had a wheelchair ready to go as soon as they saw her come in and they were absolutely on top of the ball. So that was fantastic. And I'll say using the wheelchair access ... Let's say Pearson for example, because we're here, but when you get off a plane and walk to customs, it's an 80 minute walk. It is weirdly long here. So we had the wheelchair, we get off, we get to the gate. They put us on the golf cart, which was a first time experience for me. And we were from the plane to the Uber ... Because we don't check in bags. We only take carry-ons. We were in the Uber within 30 minutes. And so we were through all the security, everything like that. It was super quick. So to avoid things like fatigue with that, it's very important.   Ardra Shephard: That is an exception, right? Because usually you're the last off the plane and usually-   Alex Hajjar: We were though. We were. That's why I'm mentioning it because it was very surprising to me. It's an oddball situation, but they took care of us. I'll say that.   Ardra Shephard: Well I think that speaks to the bigger point also about traveling is you have to be patient. You have to be flexible. And so take your breaks when you can and take advantage of the comforts and conveniences that are available to you because it really does test you. I remember when I was getting married, a couple of girlfriends of mine had said, "We're really worried about you because you guys didn't live together before you were married." And I was like, "Don't worry about it because we traveled so much." And that I think is the ultimate test, right? Stuff's going to go wrong. There's going to be conflict, you're going to have to work stuff out. So yeah, we were good.   Ardra Shephard: So yeah, while we're at the airport, I think it's also really important to book a seat near the bathroom. If you have bladder issues with MS you're going to be tempted not to drink on the plane. You can't do that. Getting dehydrated will get you much more tired. It's going to affect all kinds of symptoms. You got to stay hydrated. Get a seat close to the bathroom. I always speak to the flight attendant whenever I get on the plane to say this is the situation, it might be an emergency. I might have to get up when the seatbelt sign is on to pee. They don't always love that, but I think if you can just have a little tête-à-tête with your flight attendant.   Alex Hajjar: They're not totally inconsiderate I think most of the time.   Ardra Shephard: No, they're not. Of course they want to keep you safe, and that seatbelt sign thing is a safety thing, but yeah.   Alex Hajjar: Also being near the bathroom limits the amount of distance you have to walk.   Ardra Shephard: Yes.   Alex Hajjar: Not just to the bathroom, but also that bathroom area is a little bit wider. Usually it's near the food prep area so you can actually use that area to stretch and maybe alleviate some spasticity if that's a result of sitting down for long periods of time. One thing we've started bringing with us now are dehydration pills like effervescence. So you just drop a couple tablets into a couple hundred mils of water. It has the electrolytes and it's supposed to retain water a little bit better than just drinking the bottled water they give you.   Ardra Shephard: Okay, mind blown. I did not know this existed.   Alex Hajjar: It's a game changer because there were times where Nicole was I think a bit more dehydrated than usual and using these, it seemed to get her back to feeling more human a little bit quicker than we've realized in the past. So I would recommend dehydration pills. Plop them in the water, let them fizz, let them go, and then you're good to go really.   Ardra Shephard: I love that. I feel like I just want to walk around the world with a saline IV most of the time because that level of hydration, it really does make you feel better.   Alex Hajjar: Yeah.   Ardra Shephard: You know?   Alex Hajjar: Yeah.   Ardra Shephard: That's a great tip Alex. Thanks for that. Okay, yeah. While we're still at the airport, I know we talked about this in the gift guide episode, Apple Air Tag for your ... If you're going to check luggage, you want a tracker on your bags, but especially on your mobility aids. So I think it's a great tip that you said about only packing a carryon if you can. But if you have a mobility aid beyond a cane, then you're going to need to check that. So I think having a luggage tracker is very, very important. We've all heard horror stories of what can happen to mobility aids and you want to know where your legs are, right? Because you need that stuff to get around. When you're packing, you must pack all of your medication in your carryon. One time Kerry and I were traveling to Poland and we had a stop over in Paris and we had just checked our bags and the entire airline got up and left. They went on strike, which is France's national pastime.   Alex Hajjar: Yeah. Them and Italy I think too. To be honest.   Ardra Shephard: My medication was in my checked bags because it's so obvious. Put your medications in your carryon. Pack more than you need. If you have medical supplies, I travel with catheters, pack them in your bag also. Always pack more than you need. You don't know what can happen.   Alex Hajjar: Yeah. We had to get some extra medication in because we were away for so long. So we did call ahead and get an extra week or so. It is important for the partner to do that because sometimes I'm not as tuned in to where the meds should go. I'm like, oh well you've got a few days with you in the carryon. But I think I said to Nicole, "Where are these meds going? Should we put them in the check bag?" Because we had a check bag coming back, because overseas, whatever. But she gave me a look dead in the eye. "You're in trouble if you think you should be putting meds in the carryon or in the check bag." So definitely put them in the carryon because yeah, you never know where it's going to go or where it could end up I should say.   Ardra Shephard: Yeah. Well also don't know what can happen on your trip. If there's weather, if there's a delay, you might need a couple extra days supply. I always feel like the medication running out is a reverse ... It's like an advent calendar to when the trip is going to end. It's like the saddest-   Alex Hajjar: Yeah. Fair enough. That's a good way of putting it, actually. It's a funner way of putting it.   Ardra Shephard: Super sad. Also, they do say you should keep your medications in their original prescription bottles so there's no confusion about what you're taking over borders. I don't always do it but.   Alex Hajjar: Also paperwork regarding your meds is a pretty critical thing to keep on you. So we have a duo tang or a little paper binder for those who don't know what duo tang is. And that has all of our-   Ardra Shephard: Because who has paper anymore?   Alex Hajjar: Well, again, it's hard copy but we keep our flight information in there too. But anything that's medical related we'll have on us because some border agents or security have no idea. And we ran into trouble in Manchester once. We had a very aggressive security person that just was not letting us take the cold packs onto the plane despite there being injection medicine, only meds and things like that. They were really aggressive about it. And I think we got through it, but if we had the paperwork it might have been different, but I think that's a critical thing to have on you is medical sign offs even or anything from your doctor that might say you're definitely meant to have it and this is the way it's supposed to be.   Ardra Shephard: Well, that's a great point because there are certain MS medications that you have to keep temperature controlled, so you want to be aware of that also. Maybe ask if you can put something in the fridge on the plane I guess. But be aware of how long you're going to be away from anything refrigerated. You also want to make yourself aware of the medical marijuana laws in whatever country you're going to. Just because it's legal and you have a legal prescription where you are doesn't mean you're allowed to bring it into another country so you don't want to get in trouble with that. Make sure you are crossing your T's and dotting your I's. Alex, does your duo tang have a photocopy of your passports?   Alex Hajjar: Every time. Yeah. Because hotels take it. Or they can take it. So we pack a few copies each.   Ardra Shephard: That's great. You guys are pros. I love it.   Alex Hajjar: We've done it a few times. But you're still learning stuff new every time. That's also the thing with MS is there's always a new evolution, a new thing to maybe pocket.   Ardra Shephard: We're still at the airport. I've still got airport tips. When you are traveling with a mobility aid, if it's a rollator or a wheelchair, you want to know how much it weighs and if it has a battery and what kind it is because they will ask that when you check it in. Always gate check your device. That is your right. I think what Air France bougie business class did, putting my rollator in the cabin is the way of the future. It's bananas to me that we have to be separated from those devices, but that's where we are now. But at least get them to the gate. I like the travel bag that goes with the Rollz Motion. That lets me keep everything together. I think the big-   Alex Hajjar: Is that the cover or?   Ardra Shephard: Yeah. It's a cover. It's a travel cover. But you can stick-   Alex Hajjar: I was going to ask is it worth getting the cover for the device?   Ardra Shephard: Yes. I think it is. We use it. You can tuck the feet of the device into the seat and just pack everything in it.   Alex Hajjar: It's quite compact.   Ardra Shephard: Yeah, I like it. I have traveled with the By Acre rollator on a plane with no cover. I've actually, knock on wood, never had a problem with my mobility aids on a plane. I think that something that gives me comfort and lets me sleep at night is knowing where I could rent or borrow one if something happened and was damaged or needed to be repaired at my destination.   Alex Hajjar: Yeah. That's something we didn't do. There was an excursion we took this time and we were able to procure a wheelchair and that came with a whole fun adventure of its own. But yeah, I think phoning ahead in a lot of places is a worthwhile venture in seeing if there are mobility devices that you do need. Because we didn't take a rollator with us. Nicole just took her cane and then she has a leg brace as well. It's a gift from the heavens I think because there's no rolling ankles with this thing. It definitely saved us given the state of the infrastructure there, so it was well worth it.   Ardra Shephard: I think if you're not yet a mobility aid user, but you're maybe mobility aid curious, travel can be a good time to test one out. That was my gateway into mobility aids. Travel is not like your everyday or not like my everyday real life experience anyway. It's a lot more active, a lot more walking and you can buy yourself some time with trekking poles or a cane or something to ease you in.   Alex Hajjar: A good place I think to look into them maybe ... Because I don't know where to get them for just walking around town, but I know that some museums and other sites like that will have it. The War museum in Ho Chi Minh City, you would be able to... They told us we'd be able to have a wheelchair should we go there. So that's somewhere that you might want to test it out. A museum.   Ardra Shephard: If you're in New York City, the Natural History Museum actually has the Rollz rollator that converts to a transport chair that you can borrow. Which I love because that's such a great idea. It's such a great device anyway. But if you're not sure if it's right for you, what a great way to test it out and have a day at an awesome museum.   Alex Hajjar: That's a draw to go to New York City I'd say. I'd go back for that.   Ardra Shephard: I love New York City already. New York City. I think when I look up most accessible cities in the world, New York City is often on the list, but I call bullshit on that also. We went to a show. We saw Hello Dolly on Broadway with Bette Midler. It was a dream come true. It was amazing. But when I asked where the bathroom was ... I asked if they had an accessible bathroom and they told me that they did. And when I needed it, they told me it was across the street, four doors over and on the second floor of a restaurant that they had made this arrangement with. Yeah. That was not super cool.   Alex Hajjar: That's not even to code. Okay, I'm not going to argue.   Ardra Shephard: Yeah. We're not going to ... Yeah. That's where the patience comes in to play. And your hydration tablets maybe so you don't have to pee during intermission. Did we cover most of the mobility aid stuff for travel? Are there more questions about that?   Alex Hajjar: I don't know. Are we moving on from the airport? Where are we going next?   Ardra Shephard: Hotels. My advice is to book the fanciest, bougiest, most comfortable hotel you can afford. Because if you are tired and feeling wrecked, you still want to feel like you're having part of the experience, that you're still having a good time when you're stuck in the room. And that is the antithesis of how I traveled when I was younger of course. It's like, oh, we just need a bed. We just need a place to crash. But things are a little bit different and you go at a different pace. And we also learned that a trip that we maybe would've taken that would've been seven days, maybe for the same budget, we do it in five, but we take more taxis, we stay in a more comfortable hotel. These are the kind of concessions that I think they take planning, but they can make you enjoy your time more so you're not missing out.   Alex Hajjar: I can't disagree with this. I think maybe a couple years ago I would sort of argue for the other side, but at this point, on this side of 2023 or whatever, I'm not going to argue with that. I think whatever you can afford, get the most comfortable thing. And this comes to a dynamic between the person with chronic illness and the person who's not with chronic illness, is that there will be times I think where fatigue might set in and you don't want to leave the room. So like you said, you want to be very comfortable while you're not leaving the room. On the other side, the other person might go out and explore and you don't want to feel bad like you're leaving your person in a shack. You know what I mean?   Ardra Shephard: Totally.   Alex Hajjar: With no amenities and an uncomfortable bed. It's already guilty enough leaving someone behind. So I think if you're leaving them in a plush environment that they're comfortable in, that's a lot more peace of mind for me as a partner.   Ardra Shephard: I love that Alex, because my partner also has things that he wants to do and see and tick off. And so I think it's great if you can negotiate that with whomever you're traveling with to say, "You know what? I need this break. Please go off and do this thing." Kerry uses that time sometimes to scout stuff. To find the great restaurant and to figure out the quickest path to get there. And so it's about just making everyone happy and negotiating those expectations. I would definitely rather spend five days somewhere comfortable than seven days where I am just tired and cranky and can't ...   Ardra Shephard: But I also will say that I spent a lot more time resting in hotel rooms in the couple of years where I was still resisting mobility aids and still nervous about it. And then the first year when we traveled with my convertible rollator, it was a game changer. I could stay out all day because I could still walk and do stuff, but then when I was tired I could sit and my husband could push me. I was really nervous about how traveling with a mobility aid was going to make my partner feel. And I only thought negative things. It made the trip better for both of us because I was comfortable, I wasn't tired and he didn't have to spend half the day doing stuff by himself. It bought us time together. It was like a light bulb. It felt so freaking obvious after we did it, but it was a game changer.   Alex Hajjar: I think in some instances it's almost impossible to bring or it's maybe not advisable to be somewhere because of how challenging it can be, but definitely mobility aids make a huge difference to both parties. And obviously places where it is relatively flat and there are nice ramps and nice accessibility features places. But yeah, it does make it a sweet thing. Because like I said, it's a bit guilty-   Ardra Shephard: It's getting over that-   Alex Hajjar: I think there is a guilty feeling from a partner perspective obviously that you're leaving someone behind. And to avoid that any mobility aid that gives you a little bit more of an edge makes both partners feel included.   Ardra Shephard: But it's getting over that hurdle and that stigma and what you think about it. I remember the first time before we traveled, Kerry taking the rollator apart with a stopwatch and putting it together and making sure. Because he was worried about how fast am I going to be able to get this in a cab or an Uber or whatever. But we didn't need to worry. It was all good.   Ardra Shephard: I want to talk about food because food is the best part of travel. But when you have MS, I think that for me that's one of the symptoms that travel can aggravate is any digestive issues that you have are going to be worse when you're tired and you're not drinking enough water, you're eating totally different food. Of course, you want to indulge. My advice is to maybe not to overdo it at all three meals. If you can keep one meal a day consistent with what you do at home, that can help. I know when we were in Berlin, we rented a place that had a kitchen and a blender and so I was able to start my day with my normal ... When I'm not having pie. My normal breakfast smoothie. Which was front loading my hydration and my nutrition and my fiber for the day. So it mattered less if I was eating schnitzel or whatever.   Alex Hajjar: I find lunch can bugger off. If I can start the day full, then we're good. And a lot of-   Ardra Shephard: It's that buffet breakfast.   Alex Hajjar: Yeah. That does make a huge difference. We've stayed in places with buffet breakfast and you load up for the whole day and then lunch is just not a thought thing. And then you can go and splurge on dinner or snack throughout the day and it doesn't feel so bad.   Ardra Shephard: Well, I think the flags maybe to think of, you might be drinking alcohol more. I definitely do when I travel. That can be more dehydrating. That can be not so great for your gut. And you may be eating fewer fruits and vegetables, which is also really important. So just think about that.   Alex Hajjar: It might be. I think in tropical areas we've gorged on fruit and stuff. We don't eat meat, so we normally try to take in a little bit more, but you're not wrong. And I think something to mention too-   Ardra Shephard: No. French fries and pasta and cheese and pastries and bread.   Alex Hajjar: There's nothing wrong with all of those. I think something to think about too is also in some places you're not necessarily going to be able to drink the tap water and fill up your water bottle at every chance you need to. So you're going to need to know where the convenience or supermarkets are, convenience stores and what to be picking up because it's critical to have ... I was buying liter and a half of water every day in Thailand and things like that because you can't drink the water. It'll make you sick.   Ardra Shephard: I know. I can't reiterate enough to not be tempted to let yourself get dehydrated. Download the app wherever you are for where the bathroom is. Know where all those public places to pee are. That's another thing I love about France is the pay toilets they have on the street. Why don't we have that? It's so smart.   Alex Hajjar: I know. It is.   Ardra Shephard: I know. I want to talk about a couple of things that you should think about packing. And I think I should have talked about this at the beginning in terms of order, but it doesn't matter. I like to pack ... And actually I haven't even been on a plane since COVID. I'm still nervous. I've learned that a road trip can be a really great way to travel when you're nervous about germs, but also just seeing your own country and the things that are around us. I will say that North American hotels love those monster beds that are princess and the pee level high off the ground. I can't get into those. I started traveling with a little plastic step stool that fits.   Alex Hajjar: That's clever. Yeah.   Ardra Shephard: It's not too cumbersome to pack, but it's big game changer. You may want to travel with a shower chair, although most places you can ask if they have them. When you book an accessible room, it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be accessible for you, so you might have to make some phone calls. And then the other thing I would say is the accessible rooms are often the shittiest rooms. They're like the rooms they give the people with dogs. Yeah. I feel like they're louder, they're bigger.   Alex Hajjar: They just have more room or?   Ardra Shephard: Yes. They're more spacious. There's more steps to take in them for sure. Feel free to ask for a discount. If you're staying at a hotel and it is not as nice a room, but it's the accessible room, I would ask for a discount on that.   Alex Hajjar: Okay. Is there anything that's MS specific that people should ask for in the room, aside from even air conditioning? Because bigger room means more steps like you said, and a lot of places have tubs and tubs are sometimes hard to navigate too, right?   Ardra Shephard: The accessible room likely won't have a tub. But this is the other thing, they're less private. They usually have a big sliding door. They're bigger. When we go back to the bed again, if you don't have that step stool and they don't have one ... We stayed at a hotel in the summer and I asked them for a step stool and they brought us this painter's stool. It was ridiculous and totally unsafe and not cool.   Alex Hajjar: Oh wow.   Ardra Shephard: You can actually ask them to take the box spring out from under the bed.   Alex Hajjar: Oh. I didn't know that.   Ardra Shephard: Yep. Yeah, you can.   Alex Hajjar: Okay. All right.   Ardra Shephard: So that's something to maybe pack. I always recommend a checklist because cog fog is real.   Alex Hajjar: Use your notes app.   Ardra Shephard: Use your notes. Those face misters, also popular in France. You get these big Evian bottles.   Alex Hajjar: Oh, right. Yeah. I've seen those.   Ardra Shephard: Those are really good cooling. There's cooling clothing you can get.   Alex Hajjar: We looked into vests, actually. And there's so many different ones and stuff that last a certain amount of time, so definitely know what your limits are when looking for that stuff. And they're not super cheap. But nothing is, I guess.   Ardra Shephard: No. That's true. That's true. If you have an accessible parking pass, you want to bring that. And not just if you're driving but in lots of places, especially in Europe, they have concessions for people with disabilities and they have these ... European residents, I believe they have identity cards that qualify them for this club. We don't have that here. But you can use your parking pass to prove that you are disabled. And you can get some really amazing deals.   Alex Hajjar: Yeah. And I know a friend of mine actually, his sister lives with a disability and the concessions in terms of ... Let's say you're going out for the night or you want to go see a concert, if you buy a ticket ... Now, I'm not sure if they still do this, so you should ask. But if you're going to a concert, let's say at Wembley Stadium, and you buy a concert ticket and you're a person with disability, they have a concession where your person that comes with you gets in for free. They don't have to buy the ticket. And so they spend that time with you because they're there with to just provide support if needed I guess. But that is a really great concession in my opinion. It's fantastic.   Ardra Shephard: Yep. We got free tickets for the companion, Kerry, to the London Eye.   Alex Hajjar: Oh really?   Ardra Shephard: We got free theater ticket. We got upgraded at the opera. We got upgraded to first class on the train.   Alex Hajjar: What?   Ardra Shephard: Yeah.   Alex Hajjar: I need to start calling these in.   Ardra Shephard: London is killing it. It's like VIP over in England. So yeah, bring your accessible pass. I didn't even have to ask for these things. They were really good about it. There are some places ... France is a little bit trickier, but all those museums, they can get really pricey. They will allow your companion in for free. You just have to pay for your ticket, which is often at a reduced cost already so take advantage.   Alex Hajjar: I've heard that the parking pass is interchangeable, at least with the state. So if you're driving there, I've heard that. And I'm not guaranteed, but I've heard it's interchangeable.   Ardra Shephard: Yes.   Alex Hajjar: So you can still park in spaces and it's legal even though it's registered in Ontario or Alberta let's say.   Ardra Shephard: Yeah. I'm just saying just bring it so you can get those concessions. Or even if you don't want to lose it, take a photocopy of it. If you're not planning on driving and you're just thinking of all the free stuff you can score.   Alex Hajjar: Yeah. Yeah. Agreed.   Ardra Shephard: Yep. What else do I want to say? A phone call, and like Alex said, searching those reviews is always great because accessible doesn't always mean the same thing. We stayed at two hotels this summer that had stairs.   Alex Hajjar: Right. Yeah.   Ardra Shephard: Up to the second floor.   Alex Hajjar: Actually, we did as well. We went to a friend's wedding and we stayed at a hotel in town that had not an insignificant amount of stairs. And it was stairs up to the second level, and it was a really old building so there were two stairs down and then three stairs up and then into the room. And I was like, why? Did people want to live in a really difficult position back then?   Ardra Shephard: I don't know. Yeah. I don't know who makes these decisions. Download a translation app.   Alex Hajjar: Oh yes.   Ardra Shephard: That's super important.   Alex Hajjar: Google Translate is good.   Ardra Shephard: It's super easy.   Alex Hajjar: I'm not advertising, but it does the job.   Ardra Shephard: Yeah. And then always ask. We stayed at a resort in Mexico a few years ago and I asked if they had beach wheelchairs and they had never heard of them. And I pulled one up on my phone and showed the example and the next day they had rented one for me for the whole week.   Alex Hajjar: Oh man, that's service.   Ardra Shephard: So awesome.   Alex Hajjar: That's good service.   Ardra Shephard: And then we went back to the same resort the next year and they had bought two.   Alex Hajjar: Wow. Did you go back because they did that next day thing or did you just really like the place?   Ardra Shephard: We loved the resort, but that was part of the service.   Alex Hajjar: True.   Ardra Shephard: I think it's like we're all learning together about accessibility and these things. I thought it was really exciting. But if beaches are your thing, there are places now with beach mats and beach wheelchairs. But don't be discouraged if they aren't there. Don't be afraid to ask because you don't know what's possible and sometimes things can surprise you. Yeah. That's a lot of tips. I think my final thing would just be find your chill. Know that there's some stuff that's going to go wrong. Pack a change of clothes in your carryon. You never know.   Alex Hajjar: It's a learning experience every time. Whether it's a drop and flop and you're supposed to be relaxing or it's a high-paced adventure, I think you're going to be learning some harsh lessons and maybe some easy lessons too, but it's never not worth it. In my opinion, it's never not worth it to travel.   Ardra Shephard: I also love travel. I think you live longer when you travel because you are experiencing new things and tasting new things and making memories. And sometimes those memories might be hard but I don't want us to stop doing things because they are hard. Because there are ways to hack stuff. And yes, we might have to make compromises, but ultimately I think it's really worth it. You've got to travel with somebody who is patient and understands and we figure it out together.   Alex Hajjar: And travel doesn't always mean taking a plane somewhere. It can be driving, taking a bus or whatever you're able to do. If you have the privilege to travel, just do it because you'll never forget it, I hope. Yeah.   Ardra Shephard: Yeah. I think it's the best thing you can spend money on, in my opinion.   Alex Hajjar: Agreed.   Ardra Shephard: I would love to know from our listeners where your most accessible travel destinations are. What's your favorite place to go? What have you found is a great place or even what's a terrible place? I'd love to know. Yeah. I want to put more pins in the map. I want to know where else to go.   Alex Hajjar: Oh, that would be so good. I also have a map with pins in it. That's almost the most rewarding part is getting back, getting over the jet lag, but also placing as many pins as possible into the map.   Ardra Shephard: My husband would totally agree with you. Yeah. We go to a new city in Ontario and he wants to put a pin it.   Alex Hajjar: Absolutely. There's nothing wrong with that. That's travel.   Ardra Shephard: Keep traveling, keep moving. Thanks for listening.   Alex Hajjar: Thank you. Yeah.   Ardra Shephard: Thanks for listening to Tripping on Air. Don't forget to visit us at trippingonair.com.